Samuel McKee
Episode 188

Narrator:

Welcome friends to another episode of the Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira, with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hey, welcome friends to another episode of the Story & Experience Podcast. I'm here in Roseville, California with my guest sitting across the table, which is always a privilege to have somebody at the studio. You are going to be so delighted with this episode. I have known them for many, many years, but never really known them. You'll see why. You'll see why, but admired them from a distance, and so now to be able to have them here is really great. If you're brand new to the podcast, we have 100 questions. They progressively become more vulnerable closer to 100, and I'll begin with the first 10, and then we'll hand over to them to share about stories and experiences that shape them into the leader that they are today, and what a leader we have today. So, first up, could you tell us your name? Does anybody ever mispronounce it?

Samuel McKee:

Yeah, Japhet, so good to be here today. I'm a fan of the podcast. This is the room where it happens, so I'm very excited. Yeah, my name is, officially on the birth certificate, Samuel McKee. No middle name.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hey, that's good.

Samuel McKee:

So, you know what I did? When I got married, I told my wife, why would we erase the Filipino part of our history when your parents are such amazing people that came over, built a new life in the US and are some of our biggest heroes? So, I took my wife's maiden name as my middle name. And each of the kids have Tolento as the middle name to carry on. We're Irish and Filipino. So... Yeah. So, simple name, Samuel McKee. When I was a kid, one of my best friends came up to me and said, "Your mom must really hate you." I'm like, "Why would you say that?" And he's like, "Well, who gives their kid a middle name like Mule?" and I'm like, "No, it's Samuel. It's my first name. I don't have a middle name."

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, no,.that's good, that's good.

Samuel McKee:

So, people usually don't mispronounce my name, but if they do, they say McGee instead of McKee.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's true. I can imagine that.

Samuel McKee:

I think the McGees have been a little more successful, Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Well, Sam McKee, it's great. It's great. Sam, what do you do for work?

Samuel McKee:

So, about 17 years ago, I started my company Evergreen Leadership, and we designed and deliver transformational leadership programs to help companies win by bringing out the best in their people. It's called Evergreen Leadership, based in the Pacific Northwest, and the idea that unfortunately leaders don't get to take six months off a year, but like Evergreens, they got to stand tall and be like arrows pointing up to a higher purpose and higher performance. So, we work with just a wide variety of leaders. When my kids were little, it was Mars and Wrigley, the candy company. So, my kids love that because I'd come home slinging candy. They'd get to try the newest flavors of caramel M&Ms, coffee M&Ms. They loved all the flavors until they started making spicy Skittles.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, yeah.

Samuel McKee:

I gave my daughter a habanero Skittle and she got this ugly look on her face, spit it out and said, "Dad, whoever made this should be fired."

Japhet De Oliveira:

Did you relay that back to them?

Samuel McKee:

I gave them the feedback. So, when my kids were teenagers, I was teaching Leading the Doc Martens Way, so I got 65% off on the boots. So, won Dad of the Year award for my teenage daughter a few years ago.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Sure, sure. That's fantastic. Yeah, I actually got to see you present live here for Adventist Health as well. I've got to find a way to record you, and so good stuff with all of our executives. Good leadership training. So, you did this 17 years ago. What did you do before that?

Samuel McKee:

Oh, before that? That's a wild story and really a calling, maybe I'll just drop into it. I was a pastor for a long time, and I was voted least likely to become a pastor. If you saw my track record in school, record number of detentions. I was born on the south side of Chicago into a family that put the nuke in nuclear. There were four of us kids from three different marriages, and my dad was an alcoholic. He worked about 12 to 15 hour days in a print shop, barely making ends meet. Just to give you an example of what it was like growing up in this three bed, one bath house. We all were in bunk beds and it was a pressure cooker.

When I was 10, he spent his whole paycheck on a pair of glasses for my big brother, and I always felt like being the baby of the family, if your job as the youngest sibling is to throw shade and run faster, hide better. And so, I called him four eyes and a few other things you can't say at Adventist Health. And I went running down the street and he was seven years older, so he caught me quick, threw me in the ditch and was ready to punch me. But I was raised right. I grew up on Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee. Later on, we moved on to Jackie Chan.

But when he went in for the punch, I kicked him in the face, smashed his glasses, and he dragged me in the house. My dad looked at him and the glasses, looked at me and said, "Why'd you do it?" I said, "I don't know." And he didn't say a word. He just punched me. And I woke up on the floor missing a tooth. I was just 10 years old. I was the baby of the family, so I got it the least of anybody, but that's how severe it was.

So, at 11, that was at 10. At 11, I started drinking. Middle school, started a forest fire. 17, almost got a DUI on the main street of our town. And in 18, was just going nowhere fast. A homeless guy saw me and he said, "Brother, you look lost." And I'm like, "Man, this is a new low." Houseless people are throwing shade on me now. And so, he said, "Look, I'm not judging you. I'm struggling with a crack addiction, but I found a place where they give people hope and help and they don't care what you look like or where you've been." And I was like, dang, I tried everything else. I'm going to give this a shot.

So, wrote down the address and it was in a rough neighborhood near North Chicago, in a machine shop garage. So I pull up, a grown up Catholic with huge towering structures of silver and gold, an expensive brick, and this machine shop garage, and all these families are walking in and nobody looks like me. Not just the complexion of my skin, but they're wearing go-to-meeting clothes. They look like they're fit for a wedding, an executive board meeting, and I've got jeans with holes in them and a white t-shirt. I look like Eminem had crawled out from under a dumpster.

And so, I snuck in the back row and my homeless friend was up front. He had hit up a Salvation Army, so he was looking good, a three-piece suit. And he said, "Brother Samuel's going to testify this morning." And I was like, time out. My greatest fear above death and snakes is public speaking. So, I walked down the aisle and I just told him, I said, "Man, I grew up Catholic." We roll in there, the priest does all the talk, and we flash some gang signs, we're out of there. Sign of the cross and we're out. And he's like, "No brother Samuel, tell him your story. Tell him where you come from." And I just tapped the microphone and said, "Hey, my name is Sam, and I just know I'm not living up to my potential. I'm not sure where to start."

And the love in those people's eyes was just amazing. They said, "Welcome home, brother Samuel." And each week, a different family took me home to their dinner table, fed me soul food, collard greens, Haitian foods, Jamaican food. And after three months of fattening me up with love, they gave me accountability. And they said, "Brother Samuel, you got to a good head on your shoulders. So, why do your grades look like you're stupid boy?" And I was like, man, I've never had love and accountability without a fist before. And I said, "I guess I better hit the books." So from then on, I got virtually straight A's, scholarship through community college, undergrad, all the way through seminary. My dad, who'd been my worst enemy, said, "All that punching, fighting and complaining couldn't get you to do what they got you to do." He's like, "I'm going to go check it out."

And my dad, who had quit drinking, but never went through the 12 steps, never realized why he medicated his pain, found peace and purpose and healing in the same exact place as I did. So, when I got married at 26 years old, I looked at my nine groomsmen and I thought, who really is my best man? And at that point, I knew my father had gone from being my worst enemy to being my best friend. And he's the one that handed me the ring when I married my wife.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow. That's a journey.

Samuel McKee:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's a change.

Samuel McKee:

Yeah. That's grace.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah, that's grace. That's grace. You're not supposed to make me cry at the beginning of this podcast. Yeah. Wow, Sam. Hey, listen, for people listening right now who may be in the same kind of situation, who may have come from a complicated, painful family background, what would you say to them, Sam?

Samuel McKee:

Well, I mean what they said in that church was, Jesus is called the Messiah because he's not afraid of a mess. And Brother Taylor, who was my favorite preacher in that church, little guy, preached like Martin Luther King Jr. He would do call and response in a way that you could never forget. And one of the first weeks I went there, he had all of us repeat after him. "I've seen God, I've seen God do so much, do so much, with so little, with so little, for so long, for so long, that I'm convinced that he can do anything with nothing, namely me." And that was the spirit in that place. He had gone from being a drug addict to getting his nursing degree to being a family man, a servant leader.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow.

Samuel McKee:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

So, you're really about change. Yeah, transformational change, right.

Samuel McKee:

Well, Japhet, that's why when I looked around in the world, I thought, man, if they could do this with me, doesn't every kid need a shot at faith, hope and love? And I thought, man, I want to do this. And so, I went from journalism to seminary, and during seminary, we planted a church in community center next to a crack house in Benton Harbor, Michigan, and then got into youth ministry. And when we were living in the Bay Area, I thought I'd be a pastor for the rest of my life, had nothing to do with business or leadership training. But my son was born and my wife gave him his first Gerber biter biscuit at eight months old.

It's this nice, photogenic moment. Oh, how cute. Well, he got a little bump on his face, then he got another one. And then she thought, "Oh, he's got a rash, so I'll put him in the bath." All of a sudden, he's got 50 hives. She calls the pediatrician, they say, "With what you've described, he's going into anaphylactic shock. You've got about 10 minutes before his airway closes."

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow. Oh my goodness.

Samuel McKee:

So, they said, "You can wait for an ambulance or you can race him in." She put him in the backseat, drove as fast as she could. When she turned around in the parking lot of the pediatricians, his face was swollen shut. The nurse ripped open the door, jabbed him in the leg with an EPIPEN and saved his life. So, they went and tested him at Stanford, five life-threatening food allergies, milk, eggs, nuts, wheat and soy.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow. Everything.

Samuel McKee:

Everything. And so bad that if you spilled your milk on the chair and scrubbed it, two weeks later, if he sat in that chair, he'd get a boil the size of your hand that would travel around his body.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh my goodness.

Samuel McKee:

So they said, "Look, we know you're a youth pastor. It's great that you're going down and building all those houses in Mexico and helping these kids stay off drugs and stay up all night at youth lock-ins. But we also know you're broke and you live across the street from the projects. You're going to have to get a side hustle because we think we can cure your son, but it's going to cost about $500 a week for more than a year." I'm thinking to myself, well, I can't start slinging dough like Walter White or something. Church ain't going to like that. What am I going to do to make some money to help heal my son? And the people in my church said, "You should become an executive coach." I said, "Well, I don't know Jack about business." They talk about P&Ls and ROI and ROI and all this stuff. I know Greek and Hebrew better than I know that.

And so, they said, "The great part is consultants are paid to have answers. Coaches just ask great questions. They shut up and listen. The people solve their own problems, and then you bill them." I'm like, "Is that legal in California?" And they're like, it sounds like a Ponzi scheme or something. And they're like, "No, actually it's better because people walk away not thinking, oh, Sam is so smart. They walk away thinking, wow, we had the answers within ourselves. We just needed to stop and think together." And so, I took a six-day coach training and they kind of take you through this grow model where, somebody, what's your goal? That's the G. What's your current reality? That's the R. What are some options to get from your reality to your goal?

You see, this is not hard to follow, and what's the way forward? What are you going to do about it? How are you going to turn your values into virtues? How are you going to take action on something that really matters? And all of a sudden, it's like magic. People make progress. They get clarity. They start building what they're meant to do.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. So, you've taken all your pastoral experience, your journalism experience, your entire life story, angled together into this Evergreen Leadership. Hey, that's good. That's good. Now, as a child growing up, you didn't, I got to know, what did you imagine you would've grow up to be before 10?

Samuel McKee:

Well, I thought I should become a firefighter to make up for all the damage I had done. I had not only started the forest on fire, but a couple years later, I started a vacant lot on fire. So, I was dealing with my trauma in not the best pyrotechnic ways. So, I thought I was going to be a firefighter.

Japhet De Oliveira:

I'm glad that you've made a change. That's good, that's good. Grace, grace. Hey, Sam, just some practical things then in the complexity of your life, but are you an early riser or late night owl, or?

Samuel McKee:

I used to be a night hawk as a youth pastor, all night lock-ins, best ideas later at night. But in more recent years with my life changing and having clients on the East coast, my work date can start as early as 5:00 or so.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay.

Samuel McKee:

And so now, I'm more in the circadian rhythm of I love the mornings, I love nature, love my little garden, and I love a pillow and a podcast by about 9:00.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hey, that's good. That's good. So, this morning when you got up like 5:00, a first thought that went through your mind today?

Samuel McKee:

Oh, that's a [inaudible 00:14:52] one. Yeah, I wish it was an easy one. My first thoughts were about my friend Dario, who's in the hospital just a third of a mile from here. You can see the hospital right there. He's only 40 years old, stage four cancer. And I came to visit him last night, and this guy and I have a special spiritual connection. If you go back in time 15 years ago, I was a pretty new coach, and I was working with this 22-year-old, was one of my many appointments for career coaching where her company had paid for me to talk with her for an hour about her goals, her dreams, her peak moments, and to compare her personality with people that were really satisfied in particular careers.

It's a Stanford University created assessment called the Strong Interest Inventory. And that session was so inspiring to her and clarifying that at 22 years old, she said, "I'm going to pay you to meet with my husband at Starbucks."

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Samuel McKee:

And talk to him about his dreams and goals. He's like a head trainer at Athleta and GAP, but his heart is elsewhere. I'm like, "Oh, this is intriguing." So, he sat down for an hour, found out he loves culinary. His dream is to be a chef. So, at the end of that meeting 15 years ago, I said to him, "You got to start moonlighting your way to your dream career." And that was it. I heard they had moved to the Bay Area, didn't hear from them for six years. I was working with an ad agency in downtown San Francisco, walk out the door and I get this spiritual vibe that I know someone in the building across the street.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Really? Okay.

Samuel McKee:

And I look up and it says Primitive Logic Consulting. So, type it in LinkedIn. Sure enough, Stephanie, Dario's wife works there. I walk in and say, "Is Stephanie here?" She comes running out and bear hugs me and says, "Oh, I told my husband, Dario, he should have called you a month ago. He's been doing exactly what you guys talked about for six years, and he's just named teaching faculty at the San Francisco School of Cooking." He's living his dream. And she's like, "And he's going to cook you dinner tonight as penance, and I'm going to get you an appointment with my CEO, this consulting company tomorrow." And she did all that.

So, I spent the night at their house, had the most exquisite meal with Dario. And unfortunately, Japhet, got another spiritual vibe in March. Had no idea then in January, he was diagnosed with colon cancer and it progressed like crazy. And so, last night when I came into the hospital, I said, "Dario, oh man, love you like a brother. What can I do for you?" And he looked at me and he said, "Sam, every chaplain's come through here. I've said to my wife, he reminds me of Sam." And he's like, "I want to know that my love and my heart and my soul can go on with my wife and my two little kids." And I said, "Dario, there's so much at this point in life that I'm not certain of, but one thing I'm absolutely certain of, from my whole faith journey, the miracles, etc., is that you are way more than flesh and blood and bone. Your spirit, and God loves you, and the whole message of Jesus's good news and grace."

And I told him my conversion story and I said, "The version of spirituality I got from the black church was one that is durable. That says, we know bad things happen to good people. We've seen it. We know good people can be enslaved for hundreds of years, and evil seems to win for a few generations. But in the end, we believe in the midst of all that misery, the miracles are going to have the last word."

Japhet De Oliveira:

Sam, thank you for sharing that actually, because I know as well, there's just so many people that have friends and colleagues that have cancer. I have several friends right now that I'm just talking to, you're literally in the same situation. And it's hard. It's hard when you see a good life. It's hard when you see a good life and you see people going through that. I've got to ask this question though, I mean, look, you are an executive coach. You're a leadership guru in this space here. Why not move into the world of motivational speaking and just do that instead? What draws you into this space? And that's a bonus question that's not even on the list, but I'm just curious.

Samuel McKee:

Japhet, it's really clear in my mind. I look around and people don't spend the bulk of their lives with their families. They don't spend the bulk of their lives in their church buildings or Bible studies or prayer groups or in their sports and hobbies. They spend the vast majority of their lives at work. And if I in the workplace can bring grace and truth in whatever terms you call it, and their heart and their mind is shaped, it ripples throughout their work. It turns into habits, it turns into character, it turns into better homes, better communication, reconciliation. More often than not in the check-ins after my leadership programs, I hear people saying, "I've got such a better marriage. I tried just being a servant leader to my wife instead of a critic. I tried listening instead of telling." Same stuff works with humans of all shapes and sizes.

And so, for me, I've always felt more at home with people that are far from organized religion. I find, part of why I worked with teenagers, there's an authenticity and honesty and just a beautiful human connection. And I love being in a room where there's atheists, agnostics, people of all kinds. It's part of why I like Adventist Health too, is that when people are broken and hurting, they come to you and you're the one group that doesn't just offer health and wholeness, but you got a message of hope. And that is what my friend wanted in the hospital yesterday, is that hope part.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah, it's true. Hope carries. Hope carries and hope lingers. Yeah, it does. And it actually, it can heal. Som that's beautiful, man. Thank you, Sam. All right. I've got one more question that I've got to hand over to you because it's so good, but it's a leadership question. Are you a backseat driver?

Samuel McKee:

So, my biggest client the past eight years is Bridgestone Firestone.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay.

Samuel McKee:

All right. So, we use these metaphors all the time, brother. In fact, our leadership agility program, we'd say, "Don't be a passenger."

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Samuel McKee:

And you were just along for the ride of change. Don't be a prisoner complaining the whole way. Are we there yet? I've got to go to the bathroom. This is so bad. It's too cold, too hot. I hate this music. But be a driver of change. And I would say, for me, when I'm in charge of something, I like to make it awesome, I like to be inclusive. I also, if I'm not driving, would rather not be involved and just let people drive wherever we're going. So, I'm kind of all in or all out when it comes to that.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay, All right, all right.

Samuel McKee:

However, my wife would tell you that coming out of trauma, one thing I wrestle with is hypervigilance. I spent my whole childhood with my siblings just trying to bring order out of chaos, try to predict where could someone get hurt? How can we manage emotions? How can we use emotional intelligence to somehow manage adults that aren't doing their job? And so, there is a part of me-

Japhet De Oliveira:

Carrying everyone.

Samuel McKee:

... Yeah, where I'm kind of like, "Oh, watch out for that. Oh, what about that?" And I'm like, oh, that's so annoying to the family. So, I'm a hot mess of either being the driver of change, being like passive, "Oh, wherever you guys want to go." Or being hypervigilant, worried about stuff.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hey, that's okay.

Samuel McKee:

Pray for my wife.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hey, that's good. That's good. You guys made it work. You made it work. All right. So, floors open, Sam. I mean, where'd you want to go, between 11 and 100?

Samuel McKee:

How about 16?

Japhet De Oliveira:

16? All right. Tell us about one place you traveled and you want to go back to.

Samuel McKee:

In 2008, we were part of a team that helped start an orphanage in Uganda with about 40 kids, helping them with their nurture, their food, their education. It's right adjacent to an Adventist school in a zero-income village near Bundibugyo, not too far from the Congo border.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay.

Samuel McKee:

And my kids grew up being pen pals with a kid from there. Every quarter, they write a handwritten letter back and forth. I got to go over there and I was one of the drivers on our mission trip. I'm not handy, I break stuff, my wife fixes it. But I am a good driver in times of chaos, driving through Kampala traffic, driving, trying to make it to the airport on time when there's a Uganda Cranes football match and traffic has gone from a 4-hour drive to a 12 hour drive. And I look over at our guide and I say, "Shake and bake." And we bump this just like the famous Ricky Bobby Talladega Night's NASCAR.

So, I can drive really well in chaotic environments. And my dream, I'd love to bring my kids back to Uganda. It is the pearl of Africa. No coastline, but nestled in the mountains, the safari, the elephants, tree climbing lions, birds as tall as us just, and some of the sweetest people in the world. And roadside chapati. I don't know, man. I love Indian food and I love naan, but the Ugandans and chapati is legit.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. All right. We'll have to take you up on that sometime. All right. Where next after 16?

Samuel McKee:

How about 21?

Japhet De Oliveira:

21? All right. Oh, share the best compliment you've ever received.

Samuel McKee:

Best compliment?

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Samuel McKee:

So, in 2021, I kept having the best contributors in my leadership programs being Latin American leaders in their second language. So I told these global companies, "You owe it to them. Give this material to them on their turf in their terms." They said yes and, we want you to learn Spanish and go with your best friend Janet Resendez, who's Mexican, and you two just do this leadership program in Spanish.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow.

Samuel McKee:

So, [foreign language 00:25:07]. So, I just said I studied 40 hours in one week, and I played basketball every night and learned all the bad words.

Japhet De Oliveira:

You're pretty good, man.

Samuel McKee:

And I had a guy named Sebastian who's been involved in music and Adventist settings in Florida, translate all of my English notes into Spanish. Told me what jokes would work, wouldn't work. I've got 90 pages, three day program, like a parallel Bible, English and then Spanish.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow.

Samuel McKee:

And I just had to roll in there and try and make it happen. So, I made awful mistakes. Instead of saying circle or obstacle, [foreign language 00:25:49], can you see if you put a pause in that word, what the second syllable is? Instead of saying circle or obstacle, can you bleep this out? I said ass three times.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, dear.

Samuel McKee:

People were dying laughing. At the end of that week that I muscled through, this young Mexican leader came up to me and she said, "Sammy, you're my own personal Ted Lasso."

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's beautiful.

Samuel McKee:

[foreign language 00:26:14]. And it was the best compliment because I was doing a hard thing. I wasn't doing a perfect job, but I was giving them my best to build a bridge, and she saw it and met me in that moment.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, hey, that's beautiful, man. I love that. All right, good. Where next off then?

Samuel McKee:

Well, let's go higher.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Samuel McKee:

74.

Japhet De Oliveira:

74? I don't know how you picked this, but what gives you hope?

Samuel McKee:

Oh.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh yeah.

Samuel McKee:

My kids. My kids, 100%.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Samuel McKee:

My daughter's studying neuroscience and music, and I just see her push herself to her limits. Start a songwriters club, do hard things, organic chemistry.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's good.

Samuel McKee:

Internships. She could have been a sweet creative, and it would've been enough. She has nothing to prove, but she's curious about the world. She pushes herself to her limits. And then, I've got a son who literally looked at me a couple years ago and said, "Dad, do you just think I'm unlucky?" Five life-threatening food allergies, which we got him cured of when he was 10. He went through oral immunotherapy. He went all those Halloweens, he'd go out and gather all his candy he couldn't eat, and instead of crying about it, you know what he'd do?

Japhet De Oliveira:

No.

Samuel McKee:

He'd wait two weeks for the neighbor kids to exhaust their caches of candy, set up a table and charge airport prices.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's creative. It's good. That's brilliant. I love it.

Samuel McKee:

So he went through all that, and he was in soccer, or as the world calls it football, scored the game-tying goal in the championship game, his knee swelled up to twice its normal size. They found a vascular malformation, three centimeters. Had to, it wasn't malignant, it's benign, but had to quit football. So, I went to GameStop because I was a depressed dad. I said, "Do you have any kind of soccer-based game?"

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Samuel McKee:

And they said there's a game called Rocket League.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay.

Samuel McKee:

So, he and I got Rocket League and he ended up playing collegiate level. Beat Oregon State, San Diego State. Kid always just finds a way. He failed out of college twice. We didn't know that he had high functioning autism and ADHD, 96th percentile in math on the SAT. So, you kind of say, "Oh, he's just lazy." Well, no, he's neurodivergent. Doesn't mean he doesn't need the same love and accountability as any other kid. So, brought him home from college and said, "Kai, you're coming home as a beloved son, but also as a renter. You can't just game, bro. You got to get a job or be hitting the books."

And what was amazing, Japhet, he fell into a job at Best Buy where they actually have development plans, they care about people. The 60-year-old Irish woman that's worked there for 30 years has a pack of teenage boys that she's mentored that love her.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's beautiful.

Samuel McKee:

And they have grown and flourished. He just got salesperson award at the store and they gave him these Nike Airs that are blue and gold, like Best Buy brand.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's beautiful.

Samuel McKee:

So, I couldn't be prouder of my kids because they're resilient, they're creative, they're better than us.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's beautiful. I hope they listened to this and get to hear that from you. That's beautiful. All right. Hey, I can't believe this, but we have time for just two more. Where do you want to go with your last two numbers?

Samuel McKee:

What's a 99?

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh. 99. It's, what's the most difficult truth you've ever had to tell?

Samuel McKee:

Oh, gosh. I don't know why this one comes to mind. I just, it might not be the most difficult truth, but it was difficult for the person to hear it. There was a 14-year-old kid in my church, his dad was an Alaska Airlines pilot, and when his dad was out of town flying, he was being awful to his mother. And yet, he looked up to me as a speaker, as a mentor. I ran a football kind of ministry. And I had to go and sit at his table and say to him, "Hey man, you know I love you. You know I enjoy you as a person, but it takes no courage to bully and disrespect your mother when your dad's out of town. That's cowardly, and you're better than that." And man, he was caught to the heart and it just never happened again. And I feel like all of us in community, we've got to care personally, but we got to challenge directly.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yes.

Samuel McKee:

It's how we grow. It's growth and grace. And it's exactly what that church gave me. If they'd just been like, "Oh, that's cool. Keep living in the dumpster, Sam," I wouldn't have the life I have today.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's good.

Samuel McKee:

But they cared enough to challenge me to my full God-given potential, and I think those hard truths are honestly the test of whether we value being liked or do we value that person's growth.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's really powerful. I love that. I love that. Accountability with the love, right? Hey, that's good. All right, Sam. Last one, man.

Samuel McKee:

Do you ever pick one for someone?

Japhet De Oliveira:

I've been asked, but no, I don't. I would love to, but I don't.

Samuel McKee:

Well, keep your morals.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Samuel McKee:

Okay. How about 100?

Japhet De Oliveira:

100. All right. Tell us about one question that you would rather not ask.

Samuel McKee:

Well, I think the hardest one for me is, did I do enough? Did I love the people in my life enough? Did I use what God had given me so graciously to the max for the blessing of others? And I guess, that comes to my mind because the second week that I came to that black church in North Chicago, they were having communion. And these two 55-year-old African American men came up to me and they said, "Brother Samuel, we practice foot washing with servant leaders." And I said, "Oh, heck no. Not in this country. Not with our history, not with the way that people that look like me treated people who look like you, and you're old enough to have gone through all that."

And they said, "Well, Brother Samuel, you're not in charge here. We're servant leaders. We practice it for all people." And so they got down, they washed my feet. And they said, "Brother Samuel, we're washing your feet. But when you go out the door, wash the feet of everyone you meet regardless of creed or color or culture. You serve them, you lead them, and you always leave them better than you found them." And I guess, while I have breath, I want to feel like I've given everything I can just like God and that church gave to me.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. That's a heavy word and a good word for all of us. Sam, thank you so much, man. I mean, I encourage people at the end of podcasts every episode to do the same thing. Sit down, talk, listen. As I said, you can't make me cry straight away, it's not fair. But I think that anyone listening to this will know that you are living what God has called you to dom and that's powerful. And I think that's actually part of the purpose of all of us, right? To feel that with the breath that we have and the life as short as it is, that we do that. So Sam, thank you so much for sharing. I want to encourage people to do the same, and until we connect, God bless. But brother, thank you.

Samuel McKee:

Thanks. Been a pleasure.

Narrator:

Thank you for joining us for the Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at adventisthealth.org/story. the Story & Experience Podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health for the Office of Culture.