Naoky Tsai, MD
Episode 185

Narrator:

Welcome friends to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira, with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families, and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hey, welcome friends to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. I am seated here with our guest today in Adventist Health Castle in Hawaii. Delighted to be able to have you meet them. If you're brand new to the podcast, we have 100 questions. They progressively become more vulnerable closer to 100 and they're stories and experiences that shaped this person into the leader they are today. I'm going to begin with the first 10 and then I'll hand it over to them to choose the number. Let's start with number one. Could you tell us your name and does anybody ever mispronounce it?

Naoky Tsai:

It's Naoky Tsai.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Naoky Tsai.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. It's Tsai. The problem is that T-S-A-I, T and S pronounced together as...

Japhet De Oliveira:

Tsai.

Naoky Tsai:

Or like Tchaikovsky.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Uh-huh?

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. Because you don't say Tchaikovsky.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's true. That's true.

Naoky Tsai:

It's Tchaikovsky. That's the most people mispronounce, but I always accept Tsai.

Japhet De Oliveira:

You always accept Tsai? It gets very gypsy. Do you correct people if they say your name wrong?

Naoky Tsai:

No. No.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay.

Naoky Tsai:

I think it's not that important.

Japhet De Oliveira:

But you're a doctor, right?

Naoky Tsai:

Yes, I am.

Japhet De Oliveira:

So how do people refer to you as a doctor? They say Dr. Tsai or-

Naoky Tsai:

Yes. In the beginning, they all say Dr. Tsai. And toward the time when they are comfortable, I'll say, "Why don't you call me, Dr. Naoky?" And even more intimate, I say, "Call me Miyagi."

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, Miyagi. Okay. Now you have to explain to everybody who's listening why would they call you Miyagi.

Naoky Tsai:

Well, if any one of them are old enough to watch this movie called Karate Kids, I am that Mr. Miyagi in appearance.

Japhet De Oliveira:

In appearance? Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

Right.

Japhet De Oliveira:

You do look a spitting image of him.

Naoky Tsai:

Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Do you actually do any karate?

Naoky Tsai:

No. I do judo.

Japhet De Oliveira:

You do judo?

Naoky Tsai:

I do judo.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. Oh, dear.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Well, Dr. Tsai, I am delighted that you were able to take some time to share with us. Could you tell us what you do for work?

Naoky Tsai:

I am a trained gastroenterologist and also transplant hepatologist.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. Okay.

Naoky Tsai:

And my interests are usually in the liver side because that is more challenging. In the field of gastroenterologists, they usually jokingly told us, by our colleague, we are luminal specialists, which we look into the lumens of a human body. You don't have to have too much thinking process. All you have to do is a technique. So after a while, you got kind of tired of that. Although it really helped you to make money, but personally I feel more challenging intellectually, particularly in the field of transplant. Just to talk about transplant, it's very intricate and the reward is exceptionally well because you-

Japhet De Oliveira:

You saved a life.

Naoky Tsai:

Right. Exactly. I have done that since 1991.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow, liver transplants since 1991?

Naoky Tsai:

Yes. Yeah. But I'm not a surgeon because transplant hepatology is like the brain of the transplant. The surgeon is the hands.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Right.

Naoky Tsai:

I'm just joking to say that, but we work together as a surgeon and the hepatologist work together managing these people. And I started the program with a very good surgeon that I worked with in 1991. That was the first transplant program in the state of Hawaii.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, you really? Wow.

Naoky Tsai:

Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Well, congratulations. That's amazing.

Naoky Tsai:

Yes. We actually together probably have experienced about a little bit more than 200 and 250. I didn't really count, but about 200 case.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Really? Since 1991?

Naoky Tsai:

Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's amazing.

Naoky Tsai:

I don't do that anymore since 2019 because I get into the point I'm very old.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wise. Wise.

Naoky Tsai:

Well, I have two young guys that come back. They are well trained and they used to be my and our students, so to speak, so the other one took over and I'm very happy that they do that.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. So you mentor them and administer overall?

Naoky Tsai:

Right. Well, not really because they were with me doing some research and something and they watch me. And then they decided they're going to go into that field.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's amazing.

Naoky Tsai:

So they were trained outside of Hawaii. We don't have a training program for hepatology here, so they went to really prestigious institution like UCSF, which is a very famous institution. They come back. We trained, so-

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's fantastic. You trained and inspired them. They went and they came home.

Naoky Tsai:

Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

This is good. This is good. Okay. That's fantastic. Now, where were you born?

Naoky Tsai:

I was born in Taiwan, which is, if you know, it's just south of Okinawa, a very small little island between Okinawa and the Philippines. And there was a very, what you call, vicious neighbor trying to swallow them up, as you know. I don't want to name names.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's okay. I don't know who you're talking about.

Naoky Tsai:

Yes. But it's a very prosper, very democratic country now, but I left the island when there was a dictatorship back in the 1970s. I also want to learn more because at that time, the medical more advanced knowledge in the United States, so I came to United States and get trained. And then I got stuck here.

Japhet De Oliveira:

And you enjoyed it?

Naoky Tsai:

I enjoyed it. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

You enjoyed it?

Naoky Tsai:

Particularly Hawaii.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Particularly Hawaii. That's fantastic. Now, you grew up in Taiwan then?

Naoky Tsai:

Correct.

Japhet De Oliveira:

When you were a child, what did you imagine you're going to grew up to be?

Naoky Tsai:

Actually, I was a very rambunctious young kid.

Japhet De Oliveira:

All right. I would never guess.

Naoky Tsai:

Yes. I was famous in the street. I'm one of the troublemaker, so I never thought about what I wanted to be. But my father is a gastroenterologist, trained in Japan, and he really got me interested in medical science. He was kind of a solo practitioners that was well trained, but because of the World War II-

Japhet De Oliveira:

World War II.

Naoky Tsai:

And my mother is Japanese, so he was kind of outcast after the war is over. He got kicked out of the university, so he opened up his own practice in a small little town where I was born. And he would have all things that he do himself. I mean, very amazing. He do his own lab mostly. And one day, I remember he asked me because we had a microscope. It's the only microscope in a small town. And he said, "Go to the..." There was a fountain in front of the railroad station. He said, "Go scoop up some water back. I'll teach you something." He was just having fun with me.

I brought it back and he had a centrifuge to sense, again, small little precipitates and put it under the glass and look into the microscope because he know there are parasites in there. It's non-harmful parasites. It's called amoeba but a different species. And you can see them moving around and I would say, "Wow, what is that?" Then he told me it's a parasite and of course the story behind that.

And then he started to show me. He usually do two studies to look for parasites' eggs. And in that time, rural area in Taiwan is not so developed, so there's a lot of parasites, so there are different kind of worms. That get me interested about the science, so I think that's kind of the influence that I got-

Japhet De Oliveira:

That grew that into passion.

Naoky Tsai:

... from my father. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow. Wow.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Your father, does he know the story about how it all came together for you? Were you able to tell it to him?

Naoky Tsai:

I didn't mention to him, but what I did mention to him is that when I was young, he would go home visit in this rural area. He would take me with him. And he owned the only scooter, so he'd put me in front of scooter then drive me to the home, if the house called.

I remember once, he took me to a mountain area because there are people who live in the mountain. Probably you have to walk about half a day to get there. He took me there because they're asking for help. So we have to drive the scooter to a riverside and took a sampan. It's a small little boat. Not a boat. It was just a-

Japhet De Oliveira:

A raft.

Naoky Tsai:

... floating raft. And went through that and then go the other side and walk up the mountain about half an hour to this guy's house. Then he would kind of set up a clinic there and I was just fooling around looking at different chickens and everything and having fun. And then we got invited to have lunch because he say, "Doctor, I have several neighbors who need to come to see you, so can you stay?" And my father said, "Of course." The neighbor live about an hour away. That's a long way because of the mountain.

So we end up staying there almost a day before we come back home and it was kind of fun for me because you got to see and you got a lot of good... They usually don't eat very well, but they would catch their own chickens and cook the chickens and the pork and everything, so it's a very fun thing. And I get to know a physician's value in an area where they need help. And I've mentioned to him, that really a big influence for me.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's beautiful. Hey, that is beautiful. I love these stories actually because they speak so much to your values of who you are. Yeah. You see from your dad. That's great. Are you an early riser or late night owl?

Naoky Tsai:

Early riser now. Right now, I start about 5:00 in the morning. Usually by about 4:45, 4:50... I live in this area. You just heard the rooster.

Japhet De Oliveira:

The rooster. Yeah. I'm hearing the rooster in the background. Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

Right. They wake me up.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, they wake you up?

Naoky Tsai:

Exactly at 5:00.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. All right.

Naoky Tsai:

They're usually anytime during the night, 2:00, 3:00, when I first got bothered by them. Right now, the only rooster call that I heard-

Japhet De Oliveira:

It's one that wakes you up.

Naoky Tsai:

... is 5:00 in the morning.

Japhet De Oliveira:

You sleep through all the others. Okay. That's good.

Naoky Tsai:

Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

In the morning, do you have coffee, water, tea, green tea? What do you have as your first drink of the day?

Naoky Tsai:

Coffee.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Coffee?

Naoky Tsai:

Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. All right. All right.

Naoky Tsai:

I actually are in this diet called intermittent fasting.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, you're fasting. Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

And it's just fitting to my schedule because I think most physicians will be like me. In the morning, they rush to the hospital to see patients. They don't really have time for a sit-down breakfast, so many of them just grab a sandwich or something, a cookie and go, and usually coffee. For me, coffee is the only one that I have usually in the morning, so it doesn't have to change too much of my behavior. So I don't eat anything until noon except coffee.

Japhet De Oliveira:

All right. Wow, you can do it. That's good. That's good. Hey, if people had to describe you, would they say you're an introvert or an extrovert and would you agree?

Naoky Tsai:

I would say it's a mixture. It all depends on the occasion. And I learned over the years that listening is a very important part. And only when you need to talk certain things then that I'm more extroverted because I'm more innovative because I talk and I teach. But I learned that listening is a very important art as a physician and then that extended into our life because when you talk, you are not listening.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. All right. Last one that I have for you and then I'm going to hand it over to you to pick a number, as a leadership question, are you a backseat driver?

Naoky Tsai:

No. I'm a front seat driver.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay.

Naoky Tsai:

I lead. I actually want to lead and set examples and I always treat all my passenger equally. Yeah. There are people who, not physician particularly, when they were trained, they have so much experience. They tend to look down upon patients. Sometimes they are colleague who are now physicians. And I think that's not right because everyone is a teacher for you basically. So if I'm leading a team, I'll lead rather than wait in the back and let them do the mistake. Actually when you do that, you will be surprised that many of your follower or your supporter will come with you. They'll try to catch up with you.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's good.

Naoky Tsai:

So it become like a teamwork.

Japhet De Oliveira:

You set a high standard.

Naoky Tsai:

No. Not really. I just show them, this is probably the best way to go with my experience.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. Hey, that's good. All right. Dr. Tsai, where would you like to go? What number?

Naoky Tsai:

Let's start it with 10.

Japhet De Oliveira:

10 actually was the last one, so now you could do 11.

Naoky Tsai:

Okay.

Japhet De Oliveira:

11? All right. Here we go. Tell us about the most adventurous food or meal you've ever eaten.

Naoky Tsai:

Not the monkey brand.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Okay. Okay.

Naoky Tsai:

Oh, that's kind of... Because come to food, I'm very conservative. I would say the fish ovary. It's kind of white. They call it shirako in Japan. In Japanese, it means white fried seeds or something like that, shirako. And it's a very, very trained taste, I would call.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Trained taste.

Naoky Tsai:

Especially when you eat it raw because they serve it raw like a sushi, so that's kind of the-

Japhet De Oliveira:

I'm glad you did it. I won't follow you.

Naoky Tsai:

I will try it again.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Well, that's quite an adventure. All right. That was 11, so where would you like to go next?

Naoky Tsai:

Let me try 18.

Japhet De Oliveira:

18. Okay. If you had to eat just one meal three times a day for an entire month, what would that meal be?

Naoky Tsai:

Sushi.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Sushi?

Naoky Tsai:

Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, okay. All right. All right. All right.

Naoky Tsai:

The rice sushi.

Japhet De Oliveira:

The rice sushi? Okay. All right. Hey, that's good. That's good. All right. Where next after 18?

Naoky Tsai:

22.

Japhet De Oliveira:

22. If you could be anywhere in the world right now, where would you be?

Naoky Tsai:

Hawaii.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hawaii? Okay.

Naoky Tsai:

Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

How long have you been in Hawaii?

Naoky Tsai:

Since 1981.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow. Okay.

Naoky Tsai:

You know why I stay so long.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. Yeah. I know.

Naoky Tsai:

Particularly in Kailua, where I live. This is what the west AH Castle located, small hospital. People are very nice. And we had a Kailua town that just got everything but not in the big way. We got a post office. We have library. We have recreation center. We have Whole Food, Target.

Japhet De Oliveira:

So you're good.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Right.

Naoky Tsai:

And then it's really kind of aloha, we call. And probably some people from New York, we say slow. Everything is slow. But the good thing about it, if you drive on the street, if somebody need a checking, we just let them go. And if you need to get in, they'll let you go. It's not like they're trying to-

Japhet De Oliveira:

Beat you all the time.

Naoky Tsai:

... beat you all the time. And that's kind of very common now in this town here, so it's very comfortable, very comfortable.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. I like that. Good. Good. All right. Where next?

Naoky Tsai:

28.

Japhet De Oliveira:

28. All right. If you had to give a 30-minute presentation, no preparation, what would you speak about?

Naoky Tsai:

Any subject?

Japhet De Oliveira:

Any subject. Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

Well, I have many different subjects.

Japhet De Oliveira:

I would imagine so.

Naoky Tsai:

But I would say nowadays, I would talk about Taiwan.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, really?

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. Because it's a threat. I don't live there. I'm American, but you still have this feeling about the place. Particularly I know the history, how difficult, struggle, and everything. And they overcome the struggle. They actually was in dictatorship as I mentioned, but since 1996, it did the first direct voting for their president, democracy without bloodshed. That's a very unique achievement. And then the second was year 2000. It was a peaceful power transition from one party to the other party without chaos, without bloodshed. Everybody very passionate during the election process, but very quiet.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Respectful afterwards.

Naoky Tsai:

Right. But after they're finished, after the vote is done, go back to the... They didn't know four years from now that they don't like this guy. Didn't get him out-

Japhet De Oliveira:

Tried to change it. Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

Right. And that has been ongoing since year 2000. We are 2025. It's just continued that way.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's good.

Naoky Tsai:

And the only problem is that there is an external threat trying to do that. So I try to talk about that to really inform people about the situation. It is actually a place. If something goes wrong, at least 80% of the global population will be affected because you know the-

Japhet De Oliveira:

History.

Naoky Tsai:

... channel. Yes. The channel that most of the goods go through, it's about 50% of the global economy. And if there is something wrong there, everybody is suffering.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Ripple effect the whole world.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

No. That's true. That's true. All right. Where next?

Naoky Tsai:

32.

Japhet De Oliveira:

32. If you were on the local news, what would the news story likely be? If you were on the news today, tonight, you get home, switch on TV and you are on the news, what would the story be?

Naoky Tsai:

I'm a kind of low-key guy, but most of the thing will be probably related to medicine. And anytime there is an outbreak of viral hepatitis and there was a couple of the TV journalists that I know would come to me and ask me about my opinions. That's when I would see myself-

Japhet De Oliveira:

On the news.

Naoky Tsai:

... on the news. And people would know. "Oh, doctor, I saw you in the news the other day." We have outbreak of hepatitis A over the years and every time there was an outbreak, they would come to me and say, "What is your feeling," and then use that occasion to educate about this disease.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's great.

Naoky Tsai:

That's kind of what I love.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's pretty good. Good. All right. Where next now?

Naoky Tsai:

We are in 30s?

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

38.

Japhet De Oliveira:

38. If you needed encouragement, who would you call?

Naoky Tsai:

Uh-oh.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Uh-oh.

Naoky Tsai:

Encouragement.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

I'd actually call my wife.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. She's always critical. Even I got something good, she wouldn't say anything, but the time she says something, I did something wrong. In a nice way.

Japhet De Oliveira:

In a nice way. How long have you guys been married?

Naoky Tsai:

Since 1976.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Wow. It's fantastic man.

Naoky Tsai:

Right.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Congratulations.

Naoky Tsai:

I think the reason that I believe why we keep going like this is because we are both continue to improve in terms of our knowledge and our attitudes. Because initially you get together because of blind love and then as year goes by, you know each other's bad part or good part and you learn, so that's how the learning process. And not just between us, also from our side.

One example, my wife, when I was training in Yale University Medical, I was a residency there and we just came out of Taiwan. She never get out of the country. She didn't drive. She don't know how to drive. She was able to learn to drive by herself. She then attend non-credit college because she wanted to learn things. I stay home doing nothing. We don't have kids at that time. She would drive about 30 minutes to the local college to learn language, to learn art. And over the years, she'd do that. She will go to a community college.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Self-motivated.

Naoky Tsai:

Right. So she learned about painting, color photography, then how to develop photography.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Develop. Okay.

Naoky Tsai:

And then she paint oil painting. She give it up already, but it's kind of the continuing improvement on both of us. Then you don't get bored with each other. I think that's the ingredient.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's ingredient to success, the secret to success.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

I like that.

Naoky Tsai:

That's my experience.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Hey, I like that. Appreciate that. All right. Where next now? That was 38.

Naoky Tsai:

38. Let's try 50.

Japhet De Oliveira:

50. Okay. Share about who has influenced you professionally.

Naoky Tsai:

There are many of them.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

There was this professor at Yale. His name is Howard Spiro. I think he passed away already and he looked like Kentucky Fried Chicken's major.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Colonel.

Naoky Tsai:

Colonel. Yes. I'm sorry.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

And he is very interesting person. He is the first one that I think I learned that medicine is not just science. There is a lot of humanity there. And when he give us a talk, he always putting some humanity thing in there.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's pretty good.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. I think I learned quite a bit from that experience.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Seeing the people.

Naoky Tsai:

Seeing the people. And he is an expert in gastroenterology. He wrote book about Crohn's disease and also the colitis. I mean, he's a very typical textbook. He's very famous, yet he talk about person. "Besides science," he say, "you have to deal with the persons." So I think you have a lot of students even now at Yale that would remember him, so I think he's the one that I would say-

Japhet De Oliveira:

Professionally really shaped you.

Naoky Tsai:

Right. But there are many other people along the way. It's not just one.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's true. That's true. We recognize the people who changed us. Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

Right.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Good. All right. Where next?

Naoky Tsai:

60.

Japhet De Oliveira:

60? All right. When in life have you felt most alone?

Naoky Tsai:

Well, my wife is always with me, so I don't feel alone. Well, I would say, and I'll bring my tears, somebody coming into the emergency room bleeding. I deal with the liver disease, so they bleed from a condition we call esophageal varices. And they are in shock because they just lost a lot of blood and they don't have good liver to start, so they don't really withstand. And we're struggling because they're shocked, so it's very hard to get IV in and we're trying to save the guy by putting things. And then it's very hard to even get an IV in and eventually you lost them.

Because the way to help these people is to put a tube down the throat and to stop the bleeding, but in order for you to do that, you have to make them relax, sedations. And with sedation, blood pressure would drop. Their blood pressure are already low, so in order to do that, you have to put them fluid and you need a conduit. You need a blood vessel and the IV line. So it's losing them. And you hope that somebody will come along or somehow someone can put a line in there for you because I don't do that myself, so that was very hard.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That is very hard.

Naoky Tsai:

And then you feel that could be a better outcome if there is some IV line in there. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Losing people is hard.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. As a physician, yes.

Japhet De Oliveira:

As a physician especially. What advice would you give to a young physician that in reality will face it? Because there's some things that just, you know...

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. It's part of your physician's life. Well, you have to think about it. And come to mind is this prayer by Niebuhr. I don't know know if you know him. He is a Christian progressional person. He's very funny, very interesting life. But anyway, he had a very famous prayer, Serenity Prayer. You probably know about it. He say, "God, bring me the serenity to accept things you cannot change, and the courage to change things that you can change, and finally the wisdom to know the difference between the two." That's the tough part. And as a physician, I think that's very important. You know what you can do and you do your best to do this. And then to accept the thing that you cannot change.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. That's true. That's true. That's a good word, Doc Tsai.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

I appreciate it.

Naoky Tsai:

It's a prayer that he made, so it's good thing.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. It's good. Good reminder. All right. Where next? We have time for two more numbers.

Naoky Tsai:

Two more.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. Cool.

Naoky Tsai:

Wow. 50. I mean, the last one was 60?

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

It was tough already. Can I regress?

Japhet De Oliveira:

You can go backwards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can go up or down rather than backwards.

Naoky Tsai:

Didn't we try the 65?

Japhet De Oliveira:

65? All right. Oh, this is good for you. Share one word that you could use to describe your past and then unpack that word.

Naoky Tsai:

Unpack the word?

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. So if you could choose one word that says, this is my life so far, one word, and then tell me why.

Naoky Tsai:

I would say continue improvement.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Oh, like it. I like it.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah.

Naoky Tsai:

Because everything that we do, we have to learn. And when you learn, you improve.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's good.

Naoky Tsai:

I mean that's kind of what I see things.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. I like that philosophy. That's good. All right. Where do you want to go to your last number?

Naoky Tsai:

Let me go to 70.

Japhet De Oliveira:

70? All right. Tell us about one thing that you are determined to accomplish.

Naoky Tsai:

There is a way of life in Japan and it have a different kind of interpretation, but the way of life is called real living called ikigai.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Ikigai.

Naoky Tsai:

Yeah. I-K-I-G-A-I, ikigai. What it mean is you want to do thing that you are very good at. Also, you want to do things you love to do. And then you also want to do things that other people need and then get rewarded. That's called ikigai. I mean, that was the interpretation for that. There are different way the Japanese interpret that. There are these two persons. I think they were either Spanish or Portuguese, who wrote a book about ikigai, and they talk about the interpretation that they have, learning from that.

Japhet De Oliveira:

That's great. That's great. Dr. Tsai, it has been a privilege to be able to talk to you.

Naoky Tsai:

Oh, thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Yeah. Thank you for sharing stories. I really appreciate it. For everybody who's listening, this is the way we should do life. We should talk to someone. Ask them good questions and we will learn and we are changed for it, right?

Naoky Tsai:

Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira:

We're better beings. As you've said, you're constantly developing and changing.

Naoky Tsai:

Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira:

We should do that as well.

Naoky Tsai:

They call it CQI.

Japhet De Oliveira:

CQI.

Naoky Tsai:

Continued quality improvement.

Japhet De Oliveira:

It's good, man. It's good. It's good. Thank you so much. God bless you. And for our listeners, we'll connect again soon.

Naoky Tsai:

Thank you so much.

Japhet De Oliveira:

Absolutely.

Naoky Tsai:

Okay. I appreciate that.

Narrator:

Thank you for joining us for the Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at adventisthealth.org/story. The Story & Experience Podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.