Sarah Shelbourne

Sarah Shelbourne
Episode 102

Join host, Japhet De Oliveira, as he sits down with Sarah Shelbourne, the physician and ambulatory executive for Adventist Health in Kern County to discuss her role overseeing medical offices, her love for reading and Hallmark movies, and her influential mentors.
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"Anything is possible, but you have to be willing to be vulnerable and recognize that you don't have all the answers and always look for that person who's smarter than you in different areas that you can learn from."

Narrator: Welcome, friends, to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira, with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey. Welcome, friends, to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. I'm delighted to be sitting across the table from my guest today as we're here at Adventist Health, Bakersfield, at the hospital, getting to enjoy this conversation here. You will get to meet this particular person in a second. If you're brand new to the podcast, we have a hundred questions, and they progressively become more complex and more vulnerable as you get to a hundred about stories and experiences that shape this person into the leader that they are today. So I'm going to begin with the first 10 and then I'll hand the floor over to you, and first one is could you tell us your name?

Sarah Shelbourne: Well, you're starting with an easy one, so thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Does anybody ever mispronounce it?

Sarah Shelbourne: So Sarah Shelbourne. And surprisingly, it's not that people mispronounce it. It's a bit of a tongue twister for some, and so I get Shelly a lot on people that I've just met or new in meetings. It just blends together.

Japhet De Oliveira: And do you correct them if they start to call you Shelly?

Sarah Shelbourne: If we're going to have a longer relationship, usually yes, because that can be embarrassing for them. So yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Right. So that could be an indicator, right? If I called you Shelly and you didn't correct me, you're like, "We're never going to talk again."

Sarah Shelbourne: Oh, now you've given away my secret. No.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's awesome. I was just going to say Shelly. No.

Sarah Shelbourne: See, I would have had to correct you.

Japhet De Oliveira: See? I know. It's crazy. All right. Sarah, could you tell us, what do you do for work?

Sarah Shelbourne: So I am the physician and ambulatory executive for Kern County, for Adventist Health, Kern County.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. So what does that really mean, physician and ambulatory? Unpack that a little bit.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yeah. It's a very long title to say that I oversee all of our medical offices.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Sarah Shelbourne: So I have the privilege of working with all of our physicians in practice and all of our medical assistants, and just every day is fun, exciting challenge.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's exciting. That's exciting. And how long have you been doing this?

Sarah Shelbourne: I've been with Adventist Health and in this role for the last five years, so it'll be five years this coming January.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right.

Sarah Shelbourne: And prior to that, I was with another organization, so home health and hospice, and spent most of my career as the CFO and then ended as the CEO and helped sell the company.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, wow. That is great. That's great. A wealth of experience. That's fantastic. All right. Simple one. In the morning when you wake up, first drink of the day. Do you have water, coffee, tea, liquid green smoothie?

Sarah Shelbourne: I so wish I could say liquid green smoothie, but-

Japhet De Oliveira: Don't we all?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes, no. I am very easy. I have my routine. I have my English breakfast tea every morning. I have my full setup, my loose leaf, get it brewing, feed my cats and then make my tea with a little splash of milk.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's a nice process, isn't it?

Sarah Shelbourne: It is. It is.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Take some time, good reflective time.

Sarah Shelbourne: Absolutely.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's fantastic.

Sarah Shelbourne: Absolutely.

Japhet De Oliveira: Good, good. Now, where were you born?

Sarah Shelbourne: I was born here in Bakersfield, so Bakersfield native.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: I presume you moved away and then came back or you've been here your whole life?

Sarah Shelbourne: No. I've been here my whole life, yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, wow.

Sarah Shelbourne: Coming out of high school, my family did not have many funds, and I was the first to go to college.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really? That's great.

Sarah Shelbourne: So started in healthcare out the gate, working during the day as a file clerk and going to school at night to get my degree.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, you did? Oh, my. Wow. I love those stories. I love people who had a full-time job, went and studied full-time and did it. You didn't sleep then for how many years?

Sarah Shelbourne: Well, when you're young, you don't need that sleep. I have so much respect for those moms out there who are doing the same thing, and so working, going to school, and a mom on top of that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well done. Well done.

Sarah Shelbourne: Just amazing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Congratulations to you as well.

Sarah Shelbourne: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Super. All right. So when you were a kid then here in Bakersfield, what did you imagine you would grow up to be at first?

Sarah Shelbourne: I would say, like a lot of kids, I loved animals and so initially, a veterinarian.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Okay.

Sarah Shelbourne: And then as I got a little bit older, junior high, high school, I really loved writing. I loved creative writing and truly thought I was either going to be a journalist or write the next best novel. But as my first job in healthcare, it just reeled me right in.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Sarah Shelbourne: Just pulled me in and haven't looked back.

Japhet De Oliveira: Do you still write?

Sarah Shelbourne: Not creatively. Not creatively, but it's one of those areas that I do want to break out pen and pad. Now that I'm an empty-nester, I think there'll be some time for that.

Japhet De Oliveira: I am looking forward to the book.

Sarah Shelbourne: All right. I'll let you know. I have one person who will buy it.

Japhet De Oliveira: I'm there. I'm there. I'll join that other person.

Sarah Shelbourne: There we go.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's really good. All right. If people were to describe your personality, would they say you're an extrovert or an introvert and would you agree with their conclusion?

Sarah Shelbourne: I would say introvert and I would agree with their conclusion. And at times, I would say it depends on the group that you're speaking with because I'm sure some of the team that I lead, they would not say introvert because I'm talking a lot. I enjoy talking with people, but I need that downtime to regenerate and really just think.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that's good. That's good. And maybe it comes with time, right? I've actually wondered whether we change over time as well.

Sarah Shelbourne: I think we all do.

Japhet De Oliveira: Or the job calls us to a different place.

Sarah Shelbourne: I think we all do. Life experience helps us continue to evolve. As in healthcare, healthcare is changing all the time. We are changing as well. So needing to grow and evolve.

Japhet De Oliveira: The reflective time, it's different for everybody, but I think we desire it at different stages of our life. So that's good. That's good. All right. Habits then. Really easy one again. Early riser or late night owl?

Sarah Shelbourne: Definitely, I'm an early bird.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. And what's early bird for you? I'm really 10 AM.

Sarah Shelbourne: No, I tend to be up 5:00, 5:30.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: And my alarm does not need to go off.

Japhet De Oliveira: I was going to ask you that. I was just going to ask you. So no need for alarm. You just-

Sarah Shelbourne: No need for it.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's automatic now.

Sarah Shelbourne: I automatically set it for 6 AM just in case, but I rarely. Usually, the alarm will go off while I'm making my tea.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. I do the same as well and I like to be able to just ... I have it set but I never have to use it, so it's fun. That's good. All right. This morning when you woke up 5:00, 5:30, first thought that went through your mind.

Sarah Shelbourne: Laying there, my first thought was that I was going to have the opportunity to spend time with you in this interview.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Well, that's good. That's good. That's fair enough. Okay. Last question in this block and then I'll hand it over to you and you can pick numbers. It's a leadership question. Are you a backseat driver?

Sarah Shelbourne: I would say typically, no. I, with my team, I really like to work, share the vision and really work through where we are going overall and then give them the freedom to move in that direction. Now there's times that I do need to step in and be more of that backseat driver or grab the steering wheel a bit, but I really want my team to have the opportunity to grow and evolve. Everybody brings great ideas to the table that way.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. That's good. Okay. That's fantastic. All right. The floor is open. Where would you like to go? What number?

Sarah Shelbourne: Oh, my.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah, I know. The choice, the pressure.

Sarah Shelbourne: All right. How about I will start with Sweet 16?

Japhet De Oliveira: Sweet 16. All right. Tell us about one of the places you've traveled to and why you want to go back.

Sarah Shelbourne: Well, I've had the opportunity to visit a number of great places. I do feel fortunate in that regard. Picking one place to return to. I would say I'd like to return to France. My daughter and I took a trip, just the two of us after she graduated from high school last summer and just had an amazing time, enjoying the culture, getting to know the people. And I would love to return and explore more.

Japhet De Oliveira: The food there is amazing.

Sarah Shelbourne: Amazing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Everywhere.

Sarah Shelbourne: There was never-

Japhet De Oliveira: Like the little cafe is great.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Oh, yes, yes. And everybody was friendly, which you don't always hear that, but I felt I experienced it.

Japhet De Oliveira: No, that's true. Where did you go in France? Did you go to Paris or Southern?

Sarah Shelbourne: We started in Paris and went to √ąze and ended in Cannes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my, goodness. Great.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, you've got a variety of places.

Sarah Shelbourne: So did Provence. Yes. It just really was lovely.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that's good. France is not really a place for people who don't like cheese though.

Sarah Shelbourne: I love cheese.

Japhet De Oliveira: If you like cheese, France is the place.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Yes, it is beautiful.

Japhet De Oliveira: It is good. All right, great. That was 16. So we're now up or down?

Sarah Shelbourne: How about my numbers background is coming in, so let's go to 26?

Japhet De Oliveira: 26, all right. Tell us about one thing that you love the most that people do not.

Sarah Shelbourne: One thing I love the most that people do not.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: Okay. This is going to be my guilty pleasure.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

Sarah Shelbourne: So I really love Hallmark movies. It's one of those-

Japhet De Oliveira: You and two other people.

Sarah Shelbourne: Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Sarah Shelbourne: I know. It's one of those embarrassing ... People come up with these great things that they watch. It's like, I just love cheesy movies.

Japhet De Oliveira: There is something nice about it though, right?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: You watch a movie like that and you feel better at the end.

Sarah Shelbourne: I know.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: I know. Don't have to think a lot. It's that downtime.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Hey, I'm with you. I understand.

Sarah Shelbourne: All right.

Japhet De Oliveira: No worries. That's good. All right. That was 26, so where next?

Sarah Shelbourne: So let's go to 36.

Japhet De Oliveira: 36, right. Tell us about one thing you hope never changes.

Sarah Shelbourne: Okay. I don't ... Everything changes. Change is a part of life, and I would say what I hope never changes is my curiosity.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. That's good.

Sarah Shelbourne: I'll just internalize this. It really is my curiosity because I feel that each day, I enjoy learning and asking questions. And if I reach a point where I'm not curious to get to know someone or understand, I need to be doing something different.

Japhet De Oliveira: I've got to ask because I'm still thinking about what you said at the very beginning of our conversation and now you talk about curiosity. Did it come from your parents? Did it come from ... Was it just something you've always had? What made you arrive at the place where you're like, "I'm going to work and go to school," where you could have just said, "No, I'm just going to stay at this?"

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: I'm going to ...

Sarah Shelbourne: Growing up in poverty really in this community, what I recognized is that I was blessed to be surrounded in school and seeing other families with different opportunities. And what I recognized is that I really just wanted ... I just always was striving to do better and to understand the why behind that class, that job, the people that I meet. And so that's where it's just always asking questions and never being afraid to ask the question.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. You've probably met people ... Again, this is not the question, but I've got to ask because it's just really interesting. You've probably met people that don't have that curiosity and don't think there's any possibility of something else and they're in this place. What would you say to them or how would you pull them out?

Sarah Shelbourne: I have had some of those conversations in mentoring friends of my kids, mentoring some of my team members. So much of this is encouraging and them knowing that there's somebody there to help them, and sharing some of my journey as well through that process and how I have been able to grow in my career and that it's possible for anyone. Anything is possible, but you have to be willing to be vulnerable and recognize that you don't have all the answers and always look for that person who's smarter than you in different areas that you can learn from.

Japhet De Oliveira: Fantastic. Thank you for that bonus. Two extra bonus questions there. I thought that was really good. So that was 36 A, B, C. All right. That's good. All right. So did you want to go in 47? Is that where you're still thinking?

Sarah Shelbourne: Let's see. So I just did 36, so I'll do 46.

Japhet De Oliveira: 46. Okay.

Sarah Shelbourne: Unless I should do 47.

Japhet De Oliveira: No, no, no, that's all right.

Sarah Shelbourne: You tell me.

Japhet De Oliveira: No. It's because I went A, B, C and it felt like I was like a few numbers above.

Sarah Shelbourne: You're adding.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh yeah, yeah. All right. This is great for you. Tell us about the best book you've ever read.

Sarah Shelbourne: I am an avid, avid reader.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Those who write usually are.

Sarah Shelbourne: And it is one of my escapes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: I would have to go back to, To Kill a Mockingbird.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, it is a good book.

Sarah Shelbourne: I loved the book, loved the movie.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well-written. Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: One of those of that just read in beginning of high school and it just stuck with me. Always comes to mind.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. There are some books when we were young that we read that actually were pretty pivotal. That's a powerful story.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Very much so.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. And the movie was great as well.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Gregory Peck.

Japhet De Oliveira: Gregory Peck. I know. I was just like, gosh, incredible.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right, so that was 46. Where next?

Sarah Shelbourne: I will do 56.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. All right. We're sticking with the tens. Share an activity that makes you lose a whole sense of time.

Sarah Shelbourne: Oh, reading.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: So I already answered that one.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Yeah, you did. You did. All right. Hey. I was like, I know where this is going to go. All right. Which is good. Which is good.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: But you could surprise me with something else. So all right. So 66 then?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. I'm very good at this.

Sarah Shelbourne: You are.

Japhet De Oliveira: I know.

Sarah Shelbourne: You're getting to know me so well.

Japhet De Oliveira: I know. So much so. All right. Tell us about one of your favorite songs and what do you love about it?

Sarah Shelbourne: Oh, this is a tough one.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: I love music and my son is a musician actually.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really? Oh.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. I love blues. Bonnie Raitt is one of my favorite artists. So I guess I would have to say artists instead of a specific song. Just Bonnie Raitt, Melissa Etheridge. I just love the earthy blues.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Hearing the voice and the great instruments.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: It is. Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. And just connect with them.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, no, that's true.

Sarah Shelbourne: And the story that they're telling.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes. Yeah. All right. Hey, that's great. Right. So 76?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Tell us about, let me see here, tell us about where you feel the safest and why.

Sarah Shelbourne: It's an interesting question, and I am not thinking of a place that I don't feel safe necessarily.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

Sarah Shelbourne: Unless it's when I've been by myself on the subway in New York.

Japhet De Oliveira: Which does anybody feel safe?

Sarah Shelbourne: So that's a place. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: I feel safe at home. I feel safe when I am with my family. I feel safe when I'm at work and with my colleagues and with my team. There's not a place that I ...

Japhet De Oliveira: Maybe have you ever had to create a place that is safe for someone else?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes, yes. I have one ... When my son was in high school, one of his close friends, his father passed away while they were in high school and he had no family in town to take care of him, other than an estranged mother who was an alcoholic. And so we invited him in and created a bedroom and made him ... He was a part of our family, and I had already felt like he was a part of our family because they had been close friends for so long. And so he joined us through high school to finish up his high school.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. That's beautiful. Well, thank you for doing it for that person. Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: Great young man. Yes. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really pouring into people, which I think it's happened to you, right?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: I can tell. Yeah, that's great. It's good to see that you're doing that for others as well. That's beautiful. All right. That was 76. So does that mean you want to go to 86?

Sarah Shelbourne: Let's see. Should I keep you ... Yes, we'll go to 86.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. All right. Who was influential in shaping you to be who you are now and why? Oh.

Sarah Shelbourne: I have been fortunate to have so many great people in my life. And I'll focus more on as I moved away from home. I would say my very first boss, she was, and this was in the days where they smoked in the office and she was a tough woman and who had started her career in the entertainment industry, and so she was tough and you would just cower at first just with her scowl. But I learned so much from her initially, a woman coming up through the ranks, and she had to be very strong in a way that I have not had to be. She paved the way in a certain extent.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

Sarah Shelbourne: And so she was the first person, Betty, who I owe a tremendous amount of the start of my journey. The next person I would say is a gentleman I worked with for another health organization who then brought me into Optimal as well, and his name was Doug Clary. And he was the one that always asked me, "What do you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to be when you grow up?" And he was also one that was very, very much in the, "Okay, why? Let's ask the why." And I connected with that so much, as we had talked about earlier that both of those individuals I recognized and felt there's no question I couldn't ask and was able to learn different things but so much from both of them.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic to have two great people like that. Have you ever had a chance to tell them?

Sarah Shelbourne: Oh, yes. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's really great because there are people who bless us that we never get to go thank, but that's great. Oh, that's super. That makes me very happy for you.

Sarah Shelbourne: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: And for them as well. All right. 96.

Sarah Shelbourne: Sure.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. If you wouldn't mind, could you tell us about the last time that you cried?

Sarah Shelbourne: The last time I cried? Okay. So the easy answer can be my Hallmark movies but ...

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh. That happens at the beginning with the titles and ... Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yeah. Oh, crying can be a release. And so when I was younger, I definitely cried a lot more. But I would say one of the last times I cried was, and maybe it's true emotion because I get teary and working through when you have a difficult situation, when you're working through with an employee and you really connect with that. So I'll get teary on that.

But true crying, I would say my son was hospitalized after his second COVID vaccine. He was one of those that ended up with myocarditis and pericarditis from the vaccine.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Sarah Shelbourne: Very rare and nothing against anything, but we went through a lot with his hospitalization.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: And as you're going through it, especially as we're in healthcare, I'm a solver, I'm going to solve the problem. And so as you're in the middle of it, emotion for me isn't there. It's once it's finished and we're on the road to recovery, just that sense of relief and that's when I truly broke down.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. There is something about being in the midst of the crisis that you persevere through, but we all need that moment. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. And just appreciation and relief and thankful, thankful for all the healthcare providers, and knowing that I'm a part of that team, even though I'm not laying hands on him.

Japhet De Oliveira: And he's doing good now?

Sarah Shelbourne: He's doing great now.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. That's fantastic. And a musician.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. He's teaching, playing, writing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah. That's great. That's great. All right. That was 96. So where would you like to go next?

Sarah Shelbourne: Oh, now, because you don't have a 106 ...

Japhet De Oliveira: No, it's like, yeah, I know. Where do we ... It's amazing how those work.

Sarah Shelbourne: How about let's just ... 23.

Japhet De Oliveira: 23. All right, here we go. Tell us about the most outdated piece of technology that you still use.

Sarah Shelbourne: Outdated piece of technology. I don't think I have anything outdated. I try and stay pretty current.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great.

Sarah Shelbourne: So there's nothing I can think of right offhand. I had a record player-

Japhet De Oliveira: Which is now in. Yeah.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yeah, I know. My son collects records.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, of course.

Sarah Shelbourne: So other than that, yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Where next after that?

Sarah Shelbourne: How about 32?

Japhet De Oliveira: 32. All right. If you were featured on the local news right here in Bakersfield, what would the story likely be?

Sarah Shelbourne: I would say women executives in business, in that journey. And one of the areas and one of my goals in the future is to connect with more young people coming up and developing and being a part of their journey as well.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Good, good. All right. We have time for two more. Where do you want to go with the last two? Isn't it crazy?

Sarah Shelbourne: I know. Well, let's see. How about 72?

Japhet De Oliveira: 72. All right. Tell us about what you want to do when you retire and then while you're waiting.

Sarah Shelbourne: There's never enough time right now and there are several organizations that I would like to be more involved with. So first, obviously, I'd like to travel more. I'd love to just have that downtime, not be on a schedule, learn golf. But I would also like to become involved, more involved in a couple of organizations here locally that are supporting kids, CASA. Magdalene's Hope is another one that addresses trafficking. And those organizations that are really there to help those who have not had some of the benefits that I have.

Japhet De Oliveira: It seems to be a theme in your life that you love to be able to ... You received blessings and you want to be able to bless and care for others. So I look forward to that happening before you retire in even bigger scales. Right?

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. All right. Our last number, where should we go?

Sarah Shelbourne: Oh, my. All right. Let's see. How about 55?

Japhet De Oliveira: 55. All right. Share about something that frightens you.

Sarah Shelbourne: There's a lot going on right now in the world that is frightening. We've had so much unrest and so much ... So our ability to communicate with each other and listen to each other has continued to diminish, and I would say we need to see that type change. But that's one of the things that frightens me, is we've been losing our ability to listen to different viewpoints because that's really what makes us a great country as well.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes. If we had more curiosity, right, for others?

Sarah Shelbourne: Exactly. And being able to put ourselves in somebody else's shoes. And I think that's one of the things that I tend to ... That's one of my processes, is I really want to understand where somebody else is coming from to be able to meet them halfway.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. It is a strange world that we're so polarized and yet, we are supposed to be connected more than ever before and we become more extreme and we're missing out.

Sarah Shelbourne: I agree. I agree. And I have so many people in my life that I can and do have those open conversations with. It's just-

Japhet De Oliveira: You want more.

Sarah Shelbourne: Everything you hear on the news.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's true. It's true.

Sarah Shelbourne: So yeah, but we'll get through it. We'll get through it.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sarah, it has been fantastic to be able to have this conversation with you. Thank you for taking the time. I want to encourage people to do the same thing but maybe have some tea.

Sarah Shelbourne: Yes. I have mine right here.

Japhet De Oliveira: You have yours right there. It's really good because the more you learn from other people asking good questions, the more you are transformed and changed as well for it. So a bit of curiosity would be good for everybody to have.

Sarah Shelbourne: Absolutely.

Japhet De Oliveira: Again, thank you so much. It's been a privilege. And until we connect again on another episode, God bless everybody.

Sarah Shelbourne: Thank you.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for The Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch and submit your story and experience at The Story & Experience Podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.