Patty Atkins

Patty Atkins
Episode 113

Join host Japhet De Oliveira as he sits down with Patty Atkins, Quality and Patient Safety Executive for Adventist Health, as they explore Patty's work improving healthcare systems, her passion for photography, her love of golf, and the need for empathy and understanding when dealing with medical errors.
Libsyn Podcast
"The essence of leadership is not to control others, but to empower them to reach their full potential."

Narrator: Welcome, friends, to another episode of the Story and Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families, and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey. Welcome, friends, to another episode of the Story and Experience Podcast. I'm delighted with our guest today, a brand new person for everybody to listen to and hear all of their stories and experiences that shape them into the leader that they are today. We have 100 questions. We're not going to cover all of them. They're smiling, that's a good sign. But they are progressively more vulnerable, more open closer to 100, and they share insights into this person's life. So let me begin straight away. Could I begin with question number one? What's your name? And does anybody ever mispronounce it?

Patty Atkins: Hi, my name is Patty Atkins. And no, they don't really mispronounce it. Occasionally, they'll misspell it though and put an I instead of a 'Y' or a 'D' instead of a 'T'. But I think the pronunciation, Patty Atkins is-

Japhet De Oliveira: It works pretty well.

Patty Atkins: ...pretty easy.

Japhet De Oliveira: Pretty easy. Oh, that's fantastic. So Patty, what do you do for work?

Patty Atkins: Well, my title is Quality and Patient Safety Executive for Adventist Health. So I'm over at the Hospital Quality and Ambulatory Clinics.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great.

Patty Atkins: And what I do basically is to create culture and improve systems, develop people, so the care we provide is better and safer.

Japhet De Oliveira: Great. So you must care about what our scores are and our results. Yeah. You're like, "Yes."

Patty Atkins: There's a lot of data, a lot of dashboards. And one of our big priorities right now are the CMS hospital quality rating stars. So there's 46 measures. So making sure that we have accurate data-

Japhet De Oliveira: That's per hospital, 46 measures?

Patty Atkins: Correct, yes. If they meet the threshold, yes. And so we want to make sure the data is accurate and then also the performance is where it needs to be. So a lot of process improvement.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. That's good. And I understand that it's changing all the time.

Patty Atkins: Every year.

Japhet De Oliveira: Every year?

Patty Atkins: There's changes. Changes in the specifications. They take away measures. They add measures. So, yes, I have a great team that stays on top of all of that. Yeah, it's a wonderful, talented team.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic.

Patty Atkins: And a great boss-

Japhet De Oliveira: And a great boss.

Patty Atkins: ...too, by the way. Yes. Love my boss. Dr. Takashi.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, he's fantastic. Actually, we just recorded him.

Patty Atkins: Yes, I heard.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, he was brilliant. All right. So in the morning, I mean, you're drinking a cup of tea right now, but in the morning when you get up, first drink of the day, tea, water, coffee, liquid green smoothie?

Patty Atkins: Well, I have two things.

Japhet De Oliveira: Two, okay.

Patty Atkins: So first is coffee, sort of simultaneous. I start with coffee to wake up, and then I make myself my athletic greens. It's a powdered scoop of 75 vitamins and minerals, like one big vitamin. So I drink that while I'm drinking my coffee too.

Japhet De Oliveira: While you're drinking your coffee. Do you blend them?

Patty Atkins: No.

Japhet De Oliveira: So how large a drink is this green liquid smoothie?

Patty Atkins: Well, it's about eight ounces.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, okay. Right.

Patty Atkins: I just pour one scoop in there. And then I also put in there some ashwagandha and some creatine. Apparently that helps prevent dementia in later years.

Japhet De Oliveira: Why not?

Patty Atkins: I listen to all these longevity podcasts.

Japhet De Oliveira: I would never guess.

Patty Atkins: Andrew Huberman and Peter Attia MD and so I try to take their recommendations and that's one of them.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, good. And you feel good for it?

Patty Atkins: Yeah. It's supposed to be good for the gut biome, apparently. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. Well, good. Patty, where were you born?

Patty Atkins: I was born in Omaha, Nebraska.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really? I have been to Omaha, Nebraska a few times. Okay, all right.

Patty Atkins: Born and raised.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah?

Patty Atkins: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Good. And when you were a child out in Omaha looking at the cattle and everything else that they're offering, what did you imagine you would grow up to be?

Patty Atkins: Well, when I was little, I loved to read National Geographic. And so I always dreamed to be a photojournalist for National Geographic magazine.

Japhet De Oliveira: That would've been great. Yeah. Do you have an eye for photography?

Patty Atkins: I love, well, my family and friends call me Patty Jo Photo.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Patty Atkins: Because I always have the photo.

Japhet De Oliveira: Patty Jo Photo. Oh, really?

Patty Atkins: And I have an app. It's called the One Second App, and I take a photo or video every day and it puts it together at the end of the year. I have 365.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh.

Patty Atkins: And it turns into a video.

Japhet De Oliveira: And you do that faithfully?

Patty Atkins: Yes, yes. It's very fun.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Oh, that's great.

Patty Atkins: I love photography.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. So did you try to pursue it a little bit and then decide something different?

Patty Atkins: A little bit, but I realized I wasn't really that talented in that area, so I took a turn.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's good. That's good. Well, lucky for us. Personality, if people were to describe your personality, would they say you are an introvert or an extrovert? And would you agree with their conclusion?

Patty Atkins: I think most people would describe me as an extrovert.

Japhet De Oliveira: Never.

Patty Atkins: Because I do like to socialize. Maybe I'm an outgoing introvert because I feel like I'm really more of an introvert as I get older.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that's good.

Patty Atkins: I enjoy my me time.

Japhet De Oliveira: Your "me time". I think we all do at some point.

Patty Atkins: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Now, are you an early riser or late night owl?

Patty Atkins: Definitely early riser.

Japhet De Oliveira: And what's that early mean?

Patty Atkins: If I can make it to 5:00, it's great.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Patty Atkins: But sometimes it's 4:00.

Japhet De Oliveira: 4:00.

Patty Atkins: Yeah. 4:00, 4:30.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great times, 4:00. That's fantastic. Okay, then. Leadership question here. Are you a backseat driver?

Patty Atkins: No. I would say I am more of a front seat coach. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, I like that.

Patty Atkins: Yeah. Well, I went through the Gallup Boss to Coach program last summer, and so I'm really changing the way that I approach leadership through some of those-

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good.

Patty Atkins: ...lessons learned. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if my team is doing great and don't need help, I sit back and enjoy the ride and just give them a lot of encouragement. But if I feel like they don't know how to drive and I'll get in there and help them or navigate for them. So yeah, I like to think I'm right there with them coaching them.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. I missed one question before I handed it over to you, and it was just about when you got up at 4:00 this morning, what was the first thing that went through your mind?

Patty Atkins: Oh, well, yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Patty Atkins: The very first thought this morning was, "Where am I?" I travel a lot.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's okay.

Patty Atkins: That's the first thing. And sort of, what time is it? But once I get myself oriented, I like to pause before I jump out of bed and dive into my task list and think about people that are suffering, family, friends that I might want to pray for or reach out to. And then I kind of go through just a little gratitude practice. Usually it's for the basic stuff, a warm bed, running water, things like that.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's still important to remember that.

Patty Atkins: So it's a good way to kind of start the day before.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's pretty good.

Patty Atkins: Jump into all the to-do's.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes. They're forever. Forever. That's pretty good.

Patty Atkins: Never-ending.

Japhet De Oliveira: I love that. All right, so the floor is open now, and you get to pick between 11 and 100 where you'd like to go.

Patty Atkins: Well, we're going to ease into the 90's, I think. We'll see how it goes. But how about 21?

Japhet De Oliveira: 21. Oh, share the best compliment you've ever received.

Patty Atkins: Oh, well, that I'm a good listener. So where I worked before was at Sharp Healthcare in San Diego. So there was a farewell party. There were four or five people that commented on how I was a good listener. And it was really touching because I try to be, and I actually have a story about how I came to be, or at least one of the things that shaped me into being a good listener.

Japhet De Oliveira: I was going to ask you exactly that question.

Patty Atkins: So what happened was, in 2003, I had back surgery after running a marathon, actually, a couple of marathons, I blew out my disc. And anyway, during the surgery, I was positioned in the prone position. So my neck was up against something supporting. And long story short, I had paralyzed vocal cords on both sides.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my goodness.

Patty Atkins: For six weeks.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my God.

Patty Atkins: So I talked like that and I didn't know if it was going to come back. It was really scary.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really scary.

Patty Atkins: But what I learned was how not to interrupt people because I couldn't compete for the volume. And so it just became natural during that time to sit and wait for the other person to finish what they're saying. And so I've just carried that through. And not that I'm perfect, but I'm aware of when I do interrupt and really try to wait for the person to say what they're saying.

Japhet De Oliveira: It is great when you have a conversation with someone and they're not thinking of the answer. Right?

Patty Atkins: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: And they're actually listening and then they're responding and they may even pause. That's actually fine.

Patty Atkins: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: We're not very good with the pauses.

Patty Atkins: Right.

Japhet De Oliveira: No. Hey, that's fantastic. All right, where next after 21?

Patty Atkins: Let's see. Let's jump up to 28.

Japhet De Oliveira: 28. All right. If you had to give an impromptu 30 minute presentation, what topic would that be?

Patty Atkins: An impromptu presentation? Well, it would be on the topic of Just Culture because I lectured on it for years. And really deeply believe in the principles.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, you have to unpack that a little bit because not everybody knows what Just Culture is and how great it is implemented here right now in Adventist Health. And so, yeah.

Patty Atkins: Lawson Stewart and his team rolled it out last year. They trained over 115 people, I think, and they're doing Train the Trainer right now. And we have some videos of our senior executives online, so I hope people check that out. So Just Culture, the essence of it is that we hold people accountable to the quality of their choices, not the luck of the outcome. So imagine there were 100 nurses that were supposed to take a double check step in delivering a medication, but 30 of those 100 nurses decided to skip it because they felt like it wasn't necessary or there weren't resources, or it was just not enough time or something like that. Lots of reasons. And one of those 30 was unlucky and it caused a medication error and a patient was harmed. So then we have a choice. How do we address those 30 nurses?

Do we blame and punish them all? Or do we learn and understand why did it make sense to skip that step? And so another big part of Just Culture is the notion of shared accountability. So individuals are accountable for the choices that we make, and then leaders are accountable to designing systems and managing systems to make it easy for people to do the right thing and hard to do the wrong thing. And then team members are also accountable to watch out for each other. So if you see people drifting from the protocol, then to gently remind them to follow this step through cross-monitoring or cross-checks or those sort of things. And so then we can all learn and improve together. So Just Culture is really a learning culture and improvement culture so that we can give the most safe and reliable care.

Japhet De Oliveira: It could also be a lot wider, right?

Patty Atkins: It's so much more complicated. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: It could be any field.

Patty Atkins: Any field. It's just as relevant for finance, for marketing, any place where humans and complex systems interact. Right?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, absolutely.

Patty Atkins: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's great. Thank you for sharing that. All right, so that was 28, where'd you want to go next?

Patty Atkins: Oh, let's ease on up a little more to the thirties. How about 33?

Japhet De Oliveira: 33, all right. Oh, tell us about the best gift you've ever given someone else.

Patty Atkins: Oh yeah. The best gift was to my sister, my little sister. And I gave her a human dog bed.

Japhet De Oliveira: A human dog bed.

Patty Atkins: She loves her dogs and she loves to snuggle with her dogs, but she had an elderly dog that couldn't jump up on the bed anymore. And so I gave her this giant dog bed so she could lie in it-

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh really?

Patty Atkins: ...with her dogs. And then she told me, because then he passed a couple months ago and she said if it weren't for the human dog bed, she wouldn't have spent as much time cuddling him in his last year. I know.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, bless. Oh, bless.

Patty Atkins: I know. It was so sweet.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really nice.

Patty Atkins: That was a good gift.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. That's really, that's very intentional. I love that. All right, we're next after that?

Patty Atkins: Let's see, how about 35?

Japhet De Oliveira: 35, all right. Share a special interest or unique talent that you have.

Patty Atkins: Oh, well I love to golf.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Patty Atkins: And yeah, it was required in my family. My dad, he was a big golfer and I have four sisters. So in high school, at any given point, we were the golf team.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh really? Okay.

Patty Atkins: And my dad was the volunteer coach. But one of the things that's really kind of unique is that I took a sort of break or sabbatical from my career in 2008 and went to the golf academy and then went through the LPGA teaching program and ended up becoming a class A teaching professional, and taught over a thousand lessons at Golf Tech.

Japhet De Oliveira: Seriously?

Patty Atkins: Yes. And it was so fun. I'm so glad I did that.

Japhet De Oliveira: How interesting.

Patty Atkins: I know. And it really helped my game, but it also helped me to understand how important it is to adapt the teaching method to the student's learning style. And so that is something that's always stayed with me is when we communicate, when we teach people, everyone's a little different. And so tuning into how they best learn will be a lot more effective. So yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic.

Patty Atkins: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's really good. What an interesting turn in your career in your life.

Patty Atkins: And then I came back.

Japhet De Oliveira: And then you came back. Yeah. No, that's great.

Patty Atkins: In 2011.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. All right, where next after that, then?

Patty Atkins: Let's see, what was that, 35?

Japhet De Oliveira: That was 35.

Patty Atkins: How about up to 51?

Japhet De Oliveira: 51, all right, here we go. Tell us about something that you know do differently than most other people.

Patty Atkins: Well, I guess something that came up recently where I was called upon, so this would be the way that I talk with or console people who have made medical errors and there's a term for that. It's called 'second victim'. And I think that I can do that differently because in my past, I was a second victim and I caused harm to a patient as a young ICU nurse in my twenties and never told anybody about it until 2017. And where I worked before, we were launching a second victim program, and the leading researcher, Dr. Sue Scott said to me, "Patty, usually we kick off the seminar with an executive who tells their story."

And I thought, "Okay, it's time. It's time." So I told my story, I made a YouTube video about it, and it was really helpful to my healing process. And it was hard. When you talk about vulnerable, but I thought, this isn't about me, it's about who might be helped. And there were a lot of people that said, "Thank you for making that. It really helped me," to be able to talk about their experience. So yeah, recently there was a director who reached out and said, "Can you talk to this nurse? She's really struggling." And I think it helps to talk with someone who has-

Japhet De Oliveira: The experience.

Patty Atkins: ...that experience. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: And there's a difference between sharing, reporting something and actually telling everyone about it.

Patty Atkins: Very different.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, very different.

Patty Atkins: There's a lot of shame and a lot of emotions.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Well that's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that.

Patty Atkins: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Where next after that?

Patty Atkins: Well, that was kind of hard. Let's ease off a little. How about we go down to 25?

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. 25. All right. Oh, share... This is great for you. Share the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.

Patty Atkins: Oh, gosh. There's been only one time I can remember in my life where my breath was taken away by beauty and it was on hole number 16 at Bandon Dunes Golf Course on the Oregon coast. And I walked up on the tee and I gasped. I went... And it was just stunning. And it wasn't just the visual, but it was the mist and the wind and the way the sea met the land, the grasses and the tree, everything was just stunningly beautiful. And then tears started to flow. Yeah. I was overcome by the beauty of that scene. Yeah, it was amazing.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is really good. That is really good. I can kind of visualize that. The coast is so beautiful.

Patty Atkins: Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: When the fog comes down. No, that's great. All right, where next, then?

Patty Atkins: Let's see. Okay. Getting a little back. Getting my strength back here.

Japhet De Oliveira: Have some more tea. Have some more tea.

Patty Atkins: How about 61?

Japhet De Oliveira: 61. Oh. No, it's great. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Tell us about a time in your life that required, actually, this is so good for you, required incredible courage.

Patty Atkins: Well, I don't know if it was incredible courage, but it's the first thing that popped in my mind. I had to have a crucial conversation with the CEO and she wasn't the most warm and friendly type. And she had made a demeaning comment to one of my employees in a meeting. And it really bothered me. And that's one of the things I tell my employees, I will always have your back. I think that's important for trust and for them to feel comfortable to speak up, etc. And I thought, well, I need to model this if I'm encouraging them. And so we had a conversation. I told her what she said made me uncomfortable. I think that's a good way to start off.

Japhet De Oliveira: Good stuff.

Patty Atkins: And I think it helped, but it did take a little courage. Whenever there's that hierarchy, it's a little intimidating, but it was worth it.

Japhet De Oliveira: Did she receive it?

Patty Atkins: I think so, yeah. I mean, we were never best friends, but-

Japhet De Oliveira: That's okay.

Patty Atkins: I think it did make a difference. And yeah, it was uncomfortable, but it helped me to get sort of comfortable with the discomfort of crucial confrontations or crucial conversations. Yeah. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great actually. I mean, talking about it one thing, modeling it.

Patty Atkins: Yeah. I mean, it just has to be something that we, again, are sort of comfortable with that discomfort, speaking up when we feel like something is really bothering us.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's true. That's true. Good. All right, that was 61.

Patty Atkins: 61. Let's move on up to 70... How about 73?

Japhet De Oliveira: 73. All right. Oh, share something that you've had to unlearn in your life.

Patty Atkins: Oh gosh. I would say unlearning.

Japhet De Oliveira: Unlearning, that's true.

Patty Atkins: Positivity is one of my strengths and it needs to be managed sometimes like all strengths. And yeah, I think sometimes positivity can be a way of avoiding the difficult emotions, sort of skirting around certain things. And sometimes, my kids will say, "Mom, stop silver-lining it."

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay, they're calling you out.

Patty Atkins: And I think it's because sometimes it can come off as feeling dismissive of what the situation is. So what I'm learning instead is just to be with whatever's happening. And sometimes things are just hard and messy, and yeah, so-

Japhet De Oliveira: We need people like you who can see things when it's dark and bleak.

Patty Atkins: Well, it's kind of tuning into what is right in that moment and not just trying to look on the bright side-

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good.

Patty Atkins: ...all the time.

Japhet De Oliveira: The balance.

Patty Atkins: Yeah. It's a little bit disconnecting sometimes. I think that's what I'm learning. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow. Is that actually one of the shadows of that strength?

Patty Atkins: I think it is.

Japhet De Oliveira: It is?

Patty Atkins: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. All right. That's great. Where next, then?

Patty Atkins: Oh, let's see.

Japhet De Oliveira: That was 73.

Patty Atkins: Okay, so we'll keep going up. How about 76?

Japhet De Oliveira: 76, all right. Tell us about where you feel the safest and why.

Patty Atkins: Oh, well, with my husband, he's my best friend. And just so understanding and supportive and a great listener. He's a psychiatrist.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh really?

Patty Atkins: Yes. I married a professional listener.

Japhet De Oliveira: How long have you guys been married?

Patty Atkins: He comes in handy. We've been married for four and a half years.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic.

Patty Atkins: Yeah. Going on five.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh. That's great. So secret of a successful marriage?

Patty Atkins: Ooh.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that was a bonus question. That was 76 or 78.

Patty Atkins: Well, let's see, what is our secret? I think a couple. One, we laugh a lot together and that's so bonding. And then two, we prioritize our time together. Yeah, I think that's key.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. Good. Oh, beautiful. All right. That was 76.

Patty Atkins: Okay. 76.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Patty Atkins: Let's jump up to 96. What the heck.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Okay. All right. Tell us about the last time, if you wouldn't mind, Patty, when you cried.

Patty Atkins: I'm not a big crier.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's okay.

Patty Atkins: But every once in a while, so it was probably two or three weeks ago. And the situation is that I have a family member who's recovering from post concussion syndrome.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my.

Patty Atkins: Yeah. It's really hard. And headaches, migraines, fatigue.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's tough.

Patty Atkins: And usually I play the resource role and in support and helping out. But every once in a while, when I'm still and alone, I just have this big burst of empathy and just feel the pain and sadness of-

Japhet De Oliveira: The reality of it.

Patty Atkins: ...the reality of it. But I have this document that I put all of my learnings in. One of my strengths is input. So I've been trying to learn as much as I can about concussions, the resources, they're out there, but a lot of them are difficult to find. And so I've put a lot of those resources into one 12 page document. So I've been able to share that with friends of friends or people that I just come across that are also suffering. And because it is, it's really, really hard. I guess there's three to 6 million people that are suffering from post concussion syndrome.

Japhet De Oliveira: And is there, I mean, teach me this, but with all your research, is there an out at the end or is it just something you're coping with?

Patty Atkins: Everybody's different.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really? Okay.

Patty Atkins: Everybody's different, but there are a lot of therapies that will help people get better faster. So that's why I feel like we got to get the word out. Yeah. Someday I might become an advocate for that. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's great.

Patty Atkins: Once we get through these tough times. But yeah, so that was the last time that I had a good cry.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's good to think that way.

Patty Atkins: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Hey, that's good. Thank you for sharing that. That was 96.

Patty Atkins: 96.

Japhet De Oliveira: You have time for two more.

Patty Atkins: Okay. I'm going to just go to the ceiling to 99. Okay.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right, 99. What is the most difficult truth that you've ever told?

Patty Atkins: Difficult truth. Well, giving feedback is always a little bit difficult, but one that was a little bit more difficult than others was when I had an employee who was a superstar, smart, hard-working, great problem solver, but people just didn't like her. She was a little off-putting and intimidating. She'd been a CDPH surveyor, useful, and I didn't want to lose her. And so we spent some time and I gave her very specific examples of ways that she could soften and it was hard. It was hard feedback, I think, to deliver and to receive. And then I gave her a couple of books. There's one book called The Likability Factor and another one called Humble Inquiry, two of my favorite books. And she turned around.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really. That's fantastic.

Patty Atkins: She became one of the most beloved people and then ended up being our secret sauce for achieving CMS five stars.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Patty Atkins: Yeah, so it was a really good, it was uncomfortable, it was difficult, but it was so worth it. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Great. All right, you are down to your final one.

Patty Atkins: Okay. Let's end on something a little lighter. How about something in the middle round, 43.

Japhet De Oliveira: 43. All right. Oh, you shared with us already the best gift you've ever given, which was really fantastic. What about the best gift you've ever received?

Patty Atkins: Oh.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Patty Atkins: Oh gosh.

Japhet De Oliveira: What's the best gift that you ever got?

Patty Atkins: Oh, there's some good ones this Christmas too. Well, but one that is the best, every Mother's Day, every birthday, are cards from my kids when they tell me how much they love me and they say I'm a great mom. Yeah. That is the most important. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Do you keep all the cards?

Patty Atkins: I keep every single one of them.

Japhet De Oliveira: Do you ever go back and look at them?

Patty Atkins: I do. I do. Yes, I do. And I can sort of look at how they change over the years. Yeah, definitely.

Japhet De Oliveira: Handwriting and everything.

Patty Atkins: Their handwriting and then I share it with them and we laugh. Oh, it's just precious.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's actually really beautiful.

Patty Atkins: Those are definitely by far the best gifts.

Japhet De Oliveira: You sound like your family's very, very tight.

Patty Atkins: Well, we're always growing, learning and growing together. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. That's good. Thank you. Patty, thank you so much for taking the time to share.

Patty Atkins: Thank you, Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: These are wonderful. These are wonderful. And I want to encourage people to do the same. Grab a cup of tea which you have in front of you and enjoy a cup of tea, but ask good questions, listen, and we're all changed by it. I'm changed by it. People listening to this are going to be changed by it as well and thinking maybe of a good way to implement Just Culture in their own homes, their own work. I mean every single field inside there. So again, Patty, thank you so much.

Patty Atkins: Thank you, Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: God bless everybody. You stay connected and we'll be on another podcast soon.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for the Story and Experience podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at adventisthealth.org/story. The Story and Experience podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.